CROSS TALK by Taro Tamai and Hayato Maki

— First off, can you tell us how the two of you met?

Tamai: I’m not sure exactly when it was, but we met naturally through a mutual friend—Yasumori Tokura, who is now the chairman of a wetsuit brand called DOVE WETSUITS. Before we even met, though, I had already heard rumors about these “three bad brothers” from Tokyo. We’re from neighboring towns, and we had lots of mutual acquaintances, so I figured we’d cross paths eventually.

Maki: Yeah, I had heard his name before too, and I’d also heard that GENTEMSTICK boards gave you the sensation of surfing on snow. I think it was sometime in the early 2000s. I was already snowboarding by then.

— When did you start surfing?

Maki: When I was 14, in my second year of junior high. It was around 1993 or 1994 in Hawaii. My older brother was already surfing, and he took me along. It was a pretty extreme first experience—rocky and dangerous, definitely not a place you’d normally take a beginner. And he didn’t teach me anything—just handed me a board like “Here.” He paddled out ahead of me, so I just tried to follow him and figure it out, but of course I got wrecked. The waves were about head high. On my third wave I got slammed into the rocks and ended up bleeding. That was my very first surfing experience.

— That kind of painful start would make some people quit. But you came back a year later to give it another go.

Maki: Yeah, I got my driver's license at 15. That opened up access to spots with gentler waves. That’s when I really started getting into it.

Tamai: So even after that brutal first session, you still had the motivation.

Maki: Definitely. I think skateboarding at the time had something to do with it too.

— Taro, what was your first experience with snowboarding?

Tamai: I grew up in a skiing family, so I was on the mountain from a young age. I started with skis. I first discovered snowboarding in 1974 when I was 12 years old. I saw a 16mm film of someone riding sideways on the snow, and for some reason it just clicked—I thought, “This is it.” But I didn’t actually start snowboarding until junior high. The winter after I started surfing, I was planning to work at a mountain lodge and thought, “Oh yeah, that snowboard thing.” I bought one and took it to the mountains along with my skis. That was the beginning of doing both surfing and snowboarding.

— You both surf and snowboard. Do you see any differences between the two?

Tamai: For me, they’re completely the same. Riding waves or riding snow—both are amazing. It’s hard to put into words, but the feeling you get from catching a perfect wave is identical to the feeling of riding perfect snow.

Maki: I feel exactly the same. Whether I’m surfing or riding in the mountains, the sensation is the same. And ever since I started riding GENTEMSTICK boards, it really feels just like surfing on snow. I can ride naturally, without relying on technical skills.

Tamai: Surfing and snowboarding have many subgenres like competition and such, but for me, it’s all about the hunt. I’m always searching for the best waves or the best snow, and being able to be there when it happens. That’s why I see them as essentially the same.

— Searching for good waves, searching for good snow—definitely a shared theme. Do you think that search becomes a form of travel? You've both traveled a lot. What value do you see in travel?

Maki: I think it’s about pursuing better waves, unknown waves. Curiosity and the desire to challenge myself are what drive me to travel.

Tamai: There’s definitely an element of “traveling to grow as a person.” But recently, I’ve started to feel that even everyday life has elements of travel. Waves are everywhere—in the ocean, the mountains, even on concrete. So lately, I feel like whether I’m traveling or not doesn’t really matter.

— You both talk about travel so casually, but I think there are always factors like destination, timing, and who you’re with. Do you have any upcoming plans or dreams?

Maki: I’m so spontaneous, I sometimes buy a plane ticket the day before and just go. I don’t think too deeply about it—it’s all intuition.

Tamai: I want to live in a way where I could be ready to go to Mexico in 30 minutes. I often get this feeling like “Now’s the time!” and then I just take off. That used to happen all the time.

Maki: I don’t know if that’s being flexible or just lacking in planning.

Tamai: It’s like a plan with no plan, right? (laughs)

— I see! (laughs) So it sounds like this winter will be another unplanned one. How do you feel with winter approaching?

Maki: I don’t have any particular plans like “When winter comes, I’ll do this,” but I do think, “I want to ride good snow.” At the same time, I try not to have too many expectations. When you expect too much, you can be disappointed. Of course, the opposite is also true, but rather than being swayed emotionally, I try to stay grateful. That way, even if the trip doesn’t bring great waves or snow, I still feel fulfilled.

Tamai: When winter comes and it snows, I snowboard. If there are waves, I surf. That’s all. But it gets cold. Sometimes I surf in minus 15 degrees Celsius. There’s nobody else around.

Maki: Is the water around 3 degrees?

Tamai: In our area, it’s about 3.5 degrees. If you go further north to the Sea of Okhotsk, the seawater goes below zero and the waves turn into a slushy texture. But the waves are really good. Sometimes, when a south wind blows the drift ice away, a perfect ground swell appears. It’s a scene you’d never see on a tropical island with warm reef breaks—completely different, but incredibly beautiful.

— And Hokkaido, with both great waves and snow, is also pretty accessible from Okinawa.

Maki: Yeah, there are direct flights, so it feels far but is actually close. In just four hours, you can experience the world’s best snow and great waves. I think very few people from Okinawa have ever seen snow. The idea of riding on it might feel like something from another world.

Tamai: Exactly. Just four hours away lies an unknown world. I really hope people will come see the beauty of the north this winter.